Imagine I’m trying to communicate with a Japanese person and I’m speaking in English and they’re speaking in Japanese.
Who is right?
Of course, it’s a very stupid question!
Both are right, but we’re not going to understand much from each other if we speak only our own languages. If we want to share experiences, to learn from each other, to grow and find a common ‘truth’ (if such a thing exists) then we have to find a common language that embraces both. It might be English, it might be Japanese or maybe a third language.
Objective v Subjective
I’ve been reading a lot of websites recently in the area of religion and faith. I’d like to say it was ‘research’ but I don’t want to give research a bad name!
Some of the sites I’ve been looking at are based on deep faith in God and religious tradition and some are based on a deep faith in no-god and scientific tradition. I’ve enjoyed reading them, though it’s not always comfortable as I sense a lot of fear and anger directed towards the ‘other side’. Both seem to blame the other for the state of the world, attack each other and their beliefs and doctrines and both attempt to make the position of the other side look either crazy or unintelligent (or both).
Here are two examples I follow and both leave me exhausted after 10 minutes surfing with them.
I’m sure there are other examples ‘proper research’ would uncover – but I just like these two for reasons I couldn’t possibly explain, even to myself. Another site I’m strangely drawn to is Christwire – it’s like a highly offensive, red-neck version of the Daily Sport – I’m only 90% certain it’s a spoof, which leaves 10% chance it could be for real.
I digress!
Take these as two, probably atypical, examples. It’s hard to recognise beneath the aggression and layers of religious dogma or scientific arrogance but, despite being in English, both sides are simply talking different languages. One is using the language of objective, verifiable evidence and the other the language of subjective experience and opinion.
- Language of Objectivity (and it’s applications such as the sciences) is a great way to understand the physical world around us. It helps us measure and predict, helps us take things apart and put things together and has led to most of mankind’s great technological advances.
- Language of Subjectivity (and it’s applications such as spirituality, philosophy) helps us understand the human experience. It helps us find purpose and meaning, helps us see our separateness and our oneness and has given us most of mankind’s artistic and creative advances.
I believe much violence is rooted in our inability to find common language and not enough people yet realising ‘Who is right?’ is still, and has always been, a very stupid question!
I’d like to end with a piece of writing I think beautifully bridges these two languages.
Everything counts and nothing counts
‘Don’t underestimate the power of counting and numbers.
Counting is almost synonymous with thinking, with mind. If you want to say that somebody is an idiot you say, he cannot count to three. You say ‘that’s what counts’, if something is important. You count somebody as a friend, you count on something or somebody and you count yourself lucky.
Counting is one of the deepest roots of the mind. Before you even think you count, you value something, you store it in some imaginary bank account. And the number of followers is very important, the number of members of some political party, the numbers of people who vote for something, the whole of democracy is based on counting. Religions count their sheep, gurus their followers (and the money they give), the number of people on some demonstration will be counted as the importance of the demonstration. The numbers of successes or cups of some sportsman, the number of peaks some mountain climber has reached, and if you cannot sleep you may count sheep. Watching counting is a great meditation.
The whole of life is based on counting and numbers. Counting is what counts. If nothing counts … what will you do? You will be at a loss.
There’s a very beautiful song by Bob Dylan, “Every Grain of Sand” (there’s also a beautiful version sung by Emmylou Harris).
“In the fury of the moment I can see the Master’s hand
In every leaf that trembles, in every grain of sand.
Then onward in my journey I come to understand
That every hair is numbered like every grain of sand.”
If every hair is numbered like every grain of sand, everything counts and nothing counts, counting is finished, mind is finished, existence remains, and a great bowing down to the mystery of life …”
Credit – written by Nirguna, a mathematician, in an Email to Glenn, a virtual friend of mine. Thank you Glenn for permission to use it.
If I may suggest an INCREDIBLE faith-based blog, Lindsey of Emphatic Asterisk http://emphaticasterisk.com/ is one of the most incredible religious writers I’ve ever read. The depth of her compassion is only matched by her knowledge of the Bible and willingness to continue to learn from and unravel it.
I don’t always agree with what she has to say, but I find her reasoning sound and her intentions pure. Faith and religion is beautiful through her eyes.
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Ian’s reply:
I’ll check it out! Always on the lookout for recommendations from people I trust. LOL
Hi Ian, interestingly I know of married couples who speak different languages and aren’t fluent in the other’s language. It’s always baffled me how they communicated, but I suppose if the heart is willing, a way can be found. Same with religion – we may not understand objectively, but if goodwill is present, we can accept and even love and support other religions.
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Ian’s reply:
Oh yes … I was in one of those relationships with a crazy Polish girl. In those days I can’t honestly say it was a willing heart that helped us find the way … and I’ll stop right there!
And I agree, there’s a huge difference between acceptance and agreeing and to my mind there’s just not enough acceptance yet in the world.
Hi Ian,
First- I think there are no stupid questions.:)
The question wouldn’t be in the first place if the answer was known.
Growing up- when my parents argued,they took it outside. Continued to argue in there native tongues.That was usually the only time,I heard Italian and Mexican spoken in the house,well outside the house:)
Great article!
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Ian’s reply:
I agree with you about the question thing and I think I overdid it with the title. I read somewhere that it was good to be controversial on blogs to get readers to hang around. I must stop taking advice and go with my instinct!
That’s the whole crux of the science vs religion issue Ian in that science won’t acknowledge the subjective experience. Many scientists would say they love their husband or wife yet how do they explain that objectively?
But both science and religion are at fault, one they’ll realise that they are climbing the same mountain, but from different sides.
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Ian’s reply:
Of course it depends on the individual and there are plenty of scientists who do acknowledge subjective experience – but as a discipline, science is not so good at subjectivism. I wonder if it’s a backlash from centuries of repression by the church … as I also acknowledge that the church has not been open in accepting objective scientific evidence either! Again, it’s not universal as their are plenty of people in the church who are seeking to reconcile the two.
Religion is probably fine but there is a line to be drawn and clearly those who go out of it make it all look bad.
Religious people live on fear, so all they know is to spread out more of it. The whole fiasco about judgement day, god watching you, sin, hell. To me it is simply a way to control people and worse yet it aint donations to the church. you are paying for a service, which is a place in heaven.
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Ian’s reply:
I read something (and I wish I could remember where) along the lines that religion is still evolving, just as many other aspects of society are evolving – politics, government, education, health care. We haven’t got any of them right yet, but we’re working on it!
Personally I believe that religion has an important role to play for our spiritual side – much of religion has just got quite a way off track. That’s no reason to throw the whole thing out!
Hi Ian,
no idea who is Glenn. The email you quote I sent to a Yahoo Group called LivingOsho on September 15, 2006. I don’t know if Glenn is a member of the group. He or she may have a different name there.
Beside the language of objectivity and the language of subjectivity there is also the language of the heart and this language has many expressions, sometimes words, sometimes gestures, sometimes silence, sometimes a smile, sometimes the eyes talk. The heart always finds a way to express itself and it is always understood by another heart. It is a universal language.
And there is another universal language, the pictorial language. Every child learns the pictorial language first, words come later. Now there is even a dictionary for travelling that contains only pictures. If you want to explain something to somebody else and you don’t know the language or the word you point at the picture of what you want or what you mean.
http://www.wjt2005.de/uploads/media/wjt_ohnew_rter.pdf
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Ian’s reply:
Nirguna – I’m delighted you found your way here – and touched that you commented. Thanks for the clarification of the source of your wonderful piece of writing!
I also believe in the universality of the language of the heart. As with any language though, the receiver needs to listen in order to hear and for this language there needs to be an open heart … which in many situations and many places is often sadly lacking. I’m hopeful that the heart of mankind is opening – it’s just a bit slow for someone impatient as myself.
Hi Ian. Personally, I’m a deist. I mention this on my facebook, but not on my website. It’s absolutely not relevant to what I promote on my blog. It is, however, who I am… at least up until this point in my life. I was one as a child, although I didn’t know the term for it. I strayed from this, trying both Christianity and Agnosticism for a while.
What I’ve learned is that religion is a fact of life. Whether or not it’s done mostly good or bad (I would argue bad) for the human race isn’t relevant. We have to learn to coexist, else we will continue to grow more intolerant as a human race.
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Ian’s reply:
I consider myself a spiritual person, rather than religious. I used to be very intolerant about religion, and I don’t know if it’s age or other stuff, but that’s changing. I now see most religions have lost sight of core purpose and got sidetracked by dogma and competition with other religions. It’s purpose is to support our spiritual growth and the sooner it gets back to focusing on that, the better for all if us.
Hi Ian,
What follows is what comes up into consciousness whilst I was reading your post. It isn’t necessarily right or wrong, but just how my awareness has responded.
So, who is right or wrong? As a Zen practitioner I get glimpses of an awareness that seems to say that there is no right or wrong. That right/wrong is something devised by man’s judgement. If we are able to transcend judgement via acceptance of what is so, then surely wars must end because there can be no sides because sides can only exist by the process of judgement leading to condemnation. Both sides are right, both sides are wrong, so that paradox will cancel itself out completely. What is so is that people are just hurting each other. I would even ask if that is right or wrong because that would be further judgement and condemnation. Isn’t this a slippery slope? And there is some more judgement!
Since the “sin” of the other side relates to some past doing, it must be an illusion, just as the past is [no more]. What is so is here and now, and if the ability to remain focused on the here and now became world-wide, accepting, letting go and moving on, what would become of sin? What could become of sides? What would become of war?
The counting. In zazen (Zen meditation or focus), beginners are instructed to focus on counting the inhalations and exhalations to the exclusion of all other thoughts. Counting from 1 – 10 over and over to still the mind. Counting on a still mind that aspires to transcend into ultimate enlightenment.
Derek
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Ian’s reply:
Derek – first of all, thanks for sharing what comes up for you. I’m with you on right/wrong and I’m reminded of a poem by Rumi:
‘There is a field out beyond right and wrong. I will meet you there’
Sounds like you’ve touched that place in your zazen!
While ’sin’ (not a concept I personally like so much!) relates to the past, I do think that some of the violence on the world is also based on fear coming from a past actions projected into the future. Along the lines “Based on what happened, those people can’t be trusted. Lets’ kill them!’ I impatiently await that world beyond right and wrong, sides, sin, war!